Jan, I wrote in your first post that this one must be written as 'Ellwood's Pygmy', not 'Ellwood Pygmy'...

i lost about 12 of them ... why are you complaining about one.. lol .. they dont like MI .. especially winter ... i was zone pushing...

but you should simply consider them short term guests... be glad for what you get.. and dont beat yourself up about their future suicide ... IMHO ... there is NOTHING you can do ... to make them live long ....

you might have a second leader there ... you ought to cut it out.. the plant will fill in nicely.. if you look where the plant is at the top of the fence ... its at 7 o'clock .. a tip sticking out further than the rest.. BUT!!! ... it might just be a camera angle ... just check it out ...

i am so angry at them.. i would just kill them now.. so they didnt WORRY me for the next few years.. lol ... [i know.. i know.. now everyone will chime in with how wonderful the group is.. whatever .. lol] ....

ken

God alone knows how this plant was afforded such an miss descriptive name.

Any chance its Ellwood's Pillar?
Doug

Name correction duly noted - thank you!

Also, Ken, I did check to see if there was a second leader and much to my surprise I think I found one. Not where you had pointed it out, but a branch paralleling the tip and almost the same length as the tip. I'm not particularly keen on cutting it out because I would lose a lot of fullness at the top. Do you think I could discourage it by regularly pruning the tip of that second leader?

Lastly, I saw two examples of Ellwood's Pillar at Pond and Garden and I thought they were unmistakably different from my plant, which is much softer looking and to my mind at least, more attractive.

Just for fun, here is the other upright Ch. lawsoniana I just acquired: Ch. lawsoniana 'Silver Threads'. This one is grafted.

{{gwi:640703}}

Very nice, and good thing it's grafted!
That pesky Phytophthora would have thwarted it before it got to that size, otherwise.
Thanks for sharing your plant purchases with us.

-Sam

There's no guarantee that's on DR rootstck. (Unless the tag says so). I believe Talon Buchholz is the only grower universally using DR rootstock on Lawsons.

They actually sometimes live up to 40 years before succumbing to phytophthora

~Dave

Oh dear, it never occurred to me that it might not be grafted on DR rootstock. The label is completely unenlightening; it has only the name and nothing else.

Very true, Dave.
echolane, I would ask Pond and Garden who the supplier was, and then you can do a bit of investigating to determine if it is on D.R. rootstock.
Usually, the only reason a nursery would go to the trouble of grafting Chamaecyparis lawsoniana (considering they root so easily) is to prevent them from being susceptible to Phytophthora.

-Sam

It's a very nice, evenly-variegated and symmetrical specimen you have. It seems pretty happy to me!

-Sam

This post was edited by monkeytreeboy15 on Thu, Feb 28, 13 at 22:18

I personally try hard to ignore the fickle Lawsons,but am still drawn to old-timers ,'Wissel's Saguaro'(only lost one in ten years,grafted)Dik's weeping and 'Blue Surprise'.
All offer special colors and dramatic architecture but for the most part I don't recommend thinking long-term relationships.I'm wracking my brain trying to remember a link for treating phytopthera infected soils with Fish emulsion drenchings.I've done this and so far so good but only time will tell.Doug

I personally try hard to ignore the fickle Lawsons,but am still drawn to old-timers ,'Wissel's Saguaro'(only lost one in ten years,grafted)Dik's weeping and 'Blue Surprise'.
All offer special colors and dramatic architecture but for the most part I don't recommend thinking long-term relationships.I'm wracking my brain trying to remember a link for treating phytopthera infected soils with Fish emulsion drenchings.I've done this and so far so good but only time will tell.Doug

I hate to repeat myself,but when necessary.......sorry folks

Doug, I share your enthusiasm for 'Blue Surprise'. I have 3 very small rooted cuttings of this one, acquired before I knew there was a problem with cutting grown Lawsons. I just love their gorgeous blue color!

Here's something interesting about disease resistant root stocks which I copied from the Monrovia website referencing 'Blue Surprise':

"An exceptional evergreen conifer, offering silvery blue foliage, complemented with a purplish cast during the winter months. This outstanding selection is grown on Guardianî root stock, an exceptional under-stock developed by Oregon State University, which is resistant to Phytophthora lateralis, a disease that has caused the demise of many Chamaecyparis lawsonianas over the last two decades. We are utilizing this rootstock on several varieties: 'Silver Queen', 'Golden King', 'Silberstar', and 'Yvonne'. ...etc"

Jan

Jan that's very positive info they're mentioning.
Which can not be said of some of their conifer names:
'Silberstar'
Must be written as
'Chamaecyparis lawsoniana 'Hoepken's Silberstar'

Chamaecyparis lawsoniana 'Yvonne'
Must be written as
Chamaecyapris lawsoniana 'Ivonne'

Coniferjoy,

You need a comma after "Jan" and a . after info. "Which can not be said of some of their coinfer names" is a fragment. A lower case "m" should replace the upper case "M," and you are missing end punctuation after "Hoepken's Silberstar' and "Ivonne."

Your attention to detail becomes muddled in your lack of attention to detail.

Anon.

Well said, Dave.
I agree.

-Sam

This post was edited by monkeytreeboy15 on Sat, Mar 2, 13 at 1:44

Here it is four years later and I have a monster (or two) on my hands. Far from succumbing to root disease my supposed dwarf conifer, Ellwood's Pygmy, is far from a dwarf. I actually have a third which I transplanted last November that is apparently thriving, I bought it a year later, so its a bit smaller. Still, it's well on its way to becoming huge like these two.

What happened to my dwarf conifers? It isnt a case of mislabeling, at least not at my end. I'm quite meticulous about names. And as far as the source, unlikely as I bought the third a year later.

i do have a Ch. Lawsoniana 'Ellwood's Pillar' which was purchased the same time as those larger two and it has remained dwarf at around 4' tall at present.

Nice healthy looking plants, Jan; well done. If a plant grows less than 6 inches a year, it counts as a dwarf conifer. No conifer will suddenly grow to a particular height and stop. Nothing is your picture looks like reversion or anything else that would cause a dwarf conifer to "speed up."

If these were large-growing species-forms of Chamaecyparis lawsoniana, they would probably be 25 feet tall by now.

I think they were about 18" tall when I bought them. Now, at at least 10' tall I'd say they've grown at a considerably greater rate than 6" a year, More like 24" per year.

Aha.

I thought they were much older. One of two things is going on here (possibly both) ... could be that the grafts have gained extra vigor from the rootstock. Also, this cultivar could be "tainted" through the grower continuously propagating the plant over time using the strongest cuttings.

I do know they are not grafted. Perhaps it is the cuttings used? This must mean the original witches broom has been "lost" and cuttings are being taken of descendants. That are too large.

If that can happen in the broader sense, not just to this cultivar, it means a buyer cannot depend on the size of anything purchased! In my case, I have a small garden and absolutely depend upon the stated categories of miniature and dwarf, etc.

This sort of thing happens a lot, especially with the older cultivars. It explains the situation. I can see how the huge growers would exacerbate this problem by wanting to create the best marketable plants in the fastest way possible. Take a look at the write-up I did for Ch. lawsoniana 'Ellwoodii.'

http://conifersociety.org/conifers/conifer/chamaecyparis/lawsoniana/ellwoodii/

'Ellwood's Pygmy,' which is thought be many to be synonymous with 'Elloodii Nana' and is not necessarily a witch's broom, the original plant was found growing at Wansdyke Nursery in the U.K. in the 1960s.

Many also speculate that 'Ellwood's Pygmy' is a genetic clone of 'Elwoodii,' which was created by using smaller cutting material. The speculation arose from the fact that old specimens of 'Ellwoodii' and 'Ellwood's Pygmy' are virtually indistinguishable and that the plant found at Wansdyke Nursery was no more than slow-growing cultivariant.

In order to have best confidence in what is actually a miniature or dwarf, stick with specialty growers who work in small volumes.

David, Thank you for your informative comments. It is disappointing though I guess not that surprising that mercenary tendencies are probably to blame. I just wish I didn't have four years invested in this mistake.

Today I traveled to Pond and Garden in Cotati, CA,, a tempting place for conifer lovers to visit! I was looking for *interesting* replacements suitable for this narrow bed and didn't find anything I really wanted that's going to remain narrow and not grow too fast and also have blue foliage. Probably should have taken two nice looking Ch. Lawsoniana ''Wissels Saguaro' at about 3' tall but I just couldn't fall in love. Finally, I found a Tsuga mertenseniana 'Bump's Blue' which I am very happy to find, but at less than a foot tall it is going to take "forever' to make much of a statement. I can't help but dwell on the lost four years invested in Ellwoodi's Pygmy. Too bad I didn't start with this Tsuga or something similar four years ago.

hey Jan next time you come to Pond and Garden, ping me. I'm 15 minutes away and I'd love to show you my garden. Also, Scott (P&G's owner) will get some more shipments in this fall and all existing stock goes on sale for 30% off the month of October. I love 'Wissels Saguaro' (I have five of them!) but I understand the need to fall in love, especially with limited space. I think some growers are just sloppy, as opposed to excessively mercenary. Also, I can get you in to Sweet Lane Wholesale Nursery, which is about 15 minutes on the other side of P&G. They have mostly huge stuff, but often have interesting small specimens as well. If nothing else, it's fun to wander around their specimen rows - they have many acres.

Sara, I am seriously jealous that you live so close to P&G. I would never have a dime to my name if I lived so close! I will definitely give you a shout out when I go next time. Seeing your garden and Sweet Lane would be a real treat.

It's great in some ways, but you know where my money goes!