lady,

"To stake or not to stake." The choice is your depending on the look you want.

Frohburg' could function as both a tall accent piece and a graceful ground cover - all in one. Found from a seedling of 'Inversa'. This zone 3 Norway will have a height of 6' and a spread of 2' in about 10 years, depending on staking habits, micro-climate, etc.

You might be able to get the main leader back upon the stake if your careful provided it hasn't taken a permanent set.

Dave

So far my small 2' Frohburg is as straight as an arrow. I plan to let it get to the height of around 6 feet then let it go. It looks like yours is around that height, but I could be wrong.

Most of the photos I've seen online let it grow to about this height, then grow over, eventually forming a skirt. I think once it fills in the gap between the curved downward leader and the main plant, then forms a skirt, it'll look pretty cool. At least that's what I'm hoping to do with mine. It'll have a different look than a normal upright weeping conifer.

hey

there comes a time... when you should get sick of looking at a stake ...

and let the tree be what the tree wants to be ...

and at that moment.. you join the WEIRDER THE BETTER CLUB ...

should it wish to put out a vertical leader.. all the power to it ... but you are not going to pull the one there back.. and i surely would not cut it.. in the hope such will cause the plant to put up a new leader ..

it is.. what it is.. can you accept that???

it is a beautiful specimen.. why do you want/need to keep torturing it????

ken

I think most people get weepers to about 6 or 7 feet because that is how high they can reach without getting on a ladder!

Hey guys thank you for the information. It sounds as though Frohburg will not grow a new leader on it's own. I want it a bit taller before it starts it's weeping weirdness so I'm going to gently make an attempt to bring that leader upright this spring. If I can not tease it upright I will have to let it be.

why do you want/need to keep torturing it????
Ken...Ken...Ken, I'm not torturing my Frohburg...I'm merely mothering it a bit. I'm sharing parental instructions on how to grow up to be a nice tall handsome Frohburg. :)

whether or not you can TEASE the leader back .. you are going to need an I beam inserted 5 feet into the ground.. to hold the arrow bow you are creating ... that little 5/8 stake you have.. is not going to hold back a one inch leader ...

the limit to how high you can go.. is not you.. not the ladder.. and not really the tree ...

ITS THE STAKE .... and never forget.. for every foot up.. you have to go another foot into the ground ...

soooo ... if you want to get it to 6 feet.. lets say .. you will need.. at a min.. an 8 to 10 foot stake [measured above the ground] ... that will need to be bammed 2 feet into the ground .. so you will need to get a 12 foot ladder.. and a bammer and climb 10 feet up and swing the thing ... to get it into the ground ...

you will not tie a tree like this.. at the very upper most tip of the stake [darn physics and all that stuff] .. and hope you dont bend the stake.. there is a lot of stored energy in that bow ...

rebar is an option.. perhaps up to one inch.. you will need to figure out how to get it to the property.. since a 10 footer wont fit in the trunk ... the ladder .. a common 6 foot house ladder will not work ... the bammer.. etc ..

so i figure.. by the time you are ready to go.. you will have invested $50 to 100$ on this stake .. plus labor ...

there is a big difference between what YOU WANT ... and what you CAN DO ... and i am suggesting.. that most of us.. can NOT do what you wish ... [which of course.. should never stop you from trying .. how do you think i learned.. lol] ...

this is where you tell us hubby is a contractor and has all this stuff in the polebarn ... lol ...

good luck

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

I don't have any weepers above 3' so this has always been a mystery to me. Are stakes a permanent fixture or just there to hold the leader growth up until it hardens? Perhaps once you get 'Frohburg' or a similar plant to 6' or so, it's got a good enough hold you only need a 3' stake on the upper newest growth to keep it goin up?

hey dave ...

the leader inclination is to go down ...

in spring.. you have to hold the new growth vertical for height ...

once you get it as tall as you want ... or you limit out on stakes/ability ..

the tree then grows down ... cascading to the ground ...

3 foot??? ... well.. thats a cheap 4 foot stake.. stuck one foot in the ground ... and most likely the max height a grower wants to go for shipping reasons ... though with an unlimited budget... you can get them any size you want ...

also .. as i said above ... once a stake get much taller.. it has to get significantly thicker.. or else its useless ...

it hard in spring ... because you can easily snap soft new growth ... yet miss it by a week or so.. and then its too hard to straighten ... it is an art ... and a timing issue ...

ken

Yep, I'm talking about training stuff from 1gal size, not buying large stock. So once 'Frohburg' or a similar type gets enough trunk caliper or roots to support itself (5-6' plant height?), there doesn't need to be a massive 10' stake in the ground to hold it up, only a smaller stake tied to the trunk higher up to support the new growth? It's relatively simple for me to keep advancing a smaller stake up the trunk to get height, but upgrading from an 8' stake to a 10', connecting 2 8', etc, is out of the question.

Sorry for the detour Lady, hopefully some of this is good general staking info. Maybe if your 'Frohburg' leader has set solid, there's a side branch you could pull vertical?

Not to disagree but the other option shown here is the one I use.

This is not rocket science and you don't need a Sherman Tank to accomplish what a small wagon will do.

Thread stake down through branches to soil line. Drive stake down 1-2 ft. next to trunk. Secure tree to stake with stretch tape. That way you are using the tree along with stake for leverage. Leave the stake long enough to extend to top of leader you are straightening. I use the plastic covered aluminum stakes available at your local nursery available in different lengths and thicknesses. I would use the 3/4 thick size considering the thickness of the branch. Wait till spring. You will have to pull back in increments. Don't get in a hurry. Suck up and retie about once a month. Only leave the stake in use till the leader has reset itself. Usually a year or less is sufficient. Cut the tape and if it holds steady you are through.

'Frohburg' on stake.

Dave

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Picea abies 'Cobra' on stake

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Dave, I am staking two conifers which otherwise would be ground cover. My goal is 8 ft. I have a 6ft Picea abies 'Pendula' and a 5ft Picea pungens 'Glauca Procumbens'. I was not able to buy a 10ft stake, had only 6 or 8ft stakes, so I am thinking about tying those or bamboo stake to the existing stakes with duct tape and continue that until 8 ft.

The question then arises what to do when 8 ft is reached. For my taste I thought to cut the leader and let the upper side branches cascade down to form a more symmetric plant. Is that doable, or would one of the upper most side branches then become a new leader? I thought I saw plants with several cascading leaders at one nursery.
Thanks!
Bernd

Thanks guys. Oh I WILL get that tree staked. I guess after a couple summers I should have known it was not going to produce a leader...eh?

I have an 8' piece of rebar that is laying around, I will use that and will definitely use your method Dave.

Ken, no such luck having anyone with construction equipment to help me out. I am the construction equip. LOL. I'm the sole gardener at this household.

I better ask...Does Picea glauca 'Pendula' form it's own leader or does it also need to be staked? I've seen some very large trees that are pendulous, I assumed mine would do the same. Here is my Picea glauca 'Pendula'.

Here is what I mean. This is a photo of my friends place. The plant in the front is Picea abies 'Wills Zwergiorm' But if you look at the upper right hand corner of the photo you see that tall plant. I assumed it was a Picea glauca 'Pendula' not? I know he did not stake that tree.

No need to stake. It will form a leader on its own. The plant pictured below looked much like yours when young. Now twenty yrs later you can hardly detect that it had a crook.
john

Picea g. 'Pendula'. Beautiful conifer indeed. Like the form so much I have two.

Bernd, Picea abies "Pendula' aka 'Reflexa' once trained to grow up will generally stay on that course. Same with Picea p. 'Procumbens'. I have a 4 ft. one growing straight as an arrow.

A couple photos.

Dave

This one about 15 years old. Off the stake for 10 years with never any sign of change.

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This one same age and off the stake for 10 years. It tends to wonder which make for and interesting conservation piece. Its tendency now is to grow straight up.
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Old photo 5-14-2005 of the above.

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Wow! These picea weepers look great.

Dave,

That is a great plant. BTW, what is the blue spruce behind it?

Thanks,
Alex

Lady,

That garden with the Will's Zwergform is in Iowa, right?

Dax

Alex,

Picea pungens Glauca 'Pendula'. This is one that must be staked for height. Very unstable and now that it has ben off the stake it is beginning to wonder.

Dave

Spring 2010

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This year

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Old photo...old camera. 8-12-98. "Pendula' and 'Glauca Pendula' were my very first conifers purchased. Little did I know where this would take me.

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Oh my goodness, your gardens are so beautiful Dave. I love your Picea pungens Glauca 'Pendula'. I love the steely blue coloring and the gorgeous mishapen form. I HAVE to get that one. At what height did you stake that one? I wish I had been more diligent while my plants where smaller in getting them staked up. OH well, I will be on that like no tomorrow for any that I place in my gardens in the future.

Dax, the photo was taken in a garden in Iowa but not Gary's. Did you ever happen to see his friend Dianne's gardens? Gary did all the hardscaping and helps her plant all her trees and chooses the spots for them. If you have not seen her garden it is a MUST see. I happened to be there when they first began putting her gardens in and then last summer I walked through it again. What an amazing transformation. She has the ability to purchase fairly large trees and those trees have put on growth making them look like full grown trees already. I wish I could afford to do that. I but puny little 1 or 2 year grafted trees and wait YEARS to see growth...if they even survive at that. LOL

I'm hoping I get the chance to get out there again this summer. We shall see if it works out. I think instead we are planning to go to Sparta, Illinois this summer. UGH! Sadly, that is out in the middle of nowhere and I won't get my plant shopping fix.

Some great photos to say the least. Love seeing pictures from the past and the now pictures, shows just how beautiful these plants can become with age and proper care. Lady lotus the picea pungens weepers do great in our nothern climate and laugh at the winters, highly recommend them, 'The Blues' is a gerat one. I have several of the weepers in my collection all doing well for many years.

Here are some of my staked and just-off-stake pictures :

Picea pungens 'Glauca Procumbens', will stay staked until 8ft, noticed curled trunk at bottom due to past history as a round cover :

Picea omorika 'Pendula Bruns' without a stake since this May, needs to straighten out on top :

Picea orientalis 'Skylands' without a stake this year, shows a kink :

Picea glauca 'Pendula' , one upper branch did not decide yet if to hang down, first year without a stake, grows straight up :

Picea abies 'Pendula' will be on stake until 8 ft :

Bernd

Cool garden Bernd.

Lady, Yes, I've seen her garden. It is amazing.

So you will be going somewhere without the chance of purchasing conifers/plants - no need to worry - that's for amateurs!! :0)

Dax

Bernd,

Great conifers..In a few years they will be great specimens.

"Picea omorika 'Pendula Bruns' without a stake since this May, needs to straighten out on top." Not necessarily. It's growth habit tends to wander as it grows in height. Best to leave it alone.

Your 'Procumbens' on the stake looks good. While its young you should consider giving it more room so it won't crowd your island boundary. Move it back 3-4 ft.

Dave,

You are correct, I will not stake the 'Pendula Bruns' anew, I understand that it will straighten out itself. It is interesting how the top wanders around.
The 'Procumbens' is nice to observe, will be bright blue again in spring. I already cut the skirt back, then I noticed that that was a mistake. I am willing in later years to remove the heavily pruned burning bush, and move two smaller conifers (one is P.p.'St.Mary's Broom'), also widen the bed. But will leave the 'Procumbens' where it is, it got moved around already too much.

Thanks for your comment!
Bernd

Nice Bernd! I've never seen a procumbens staked, but imagine that's going to be outrageous once you let it go free range.