I’m of the opinion they can tolerate more shade when young, but tolerance decreases as they get older. Both pictures are examples of plants growing in partial shade, but likely get several hours of direct sun. In the first, the parking area provides open space for the sun to bath them. It could be a few hours hours in the early am and a few more in the late pm, but they’re getting what they need. The second looks to be shadier, but you can see it’s getting some sun off the water. Could it be water reflective sun is allowing this juniper to seemingly thrive?

I'd agree that those areas are not likely to provide as much shade as you think. For the first, it would get both early and late day sun but likely somewhat less under the maple, depending on its orientation.

IME, groundcover type junipers can tolerate more shade than upright or taller, spreadng forms are happy with.

i agree.. that doesnt look like much shade at all .. if anything.. it would qualify as what i call.. bright shade ... mostly during the heat of the day .. which is usually a plus ... for a lot of plants ...

these plantings wouldnt last long.. in areas where we bury parking lots in salt in winter ... and then we would be wondering.. if its the shade that killed the plantings.. lol ...

ken

So even full sun plants are able to thrive in indirect sunlight? That is good news to me. Every website I check says full sun plants need direct sunlight(unfiltered, non reflective) on them for 6 hours at the least. Are they just over exaggerating? It is very hard to achieve a direct sun of 6 hours or more in most suburban settings where there are big trees everywhere. And yet I still see many full sun plants thrive.

The salt hasn’t been an issue for that juniper at the parking lot. Every year it gets salted heavily(granular) and they don’t seem to mind it.

I’m trying to plan my future rock garden and I wanted to include my species pinus thunbergii and my juniperus sargentii ‘glauca’ in it. Can I plant the pine like 5 ft behind the juniper? The shade shouldn’t be a problem anymore for the juniper right? I’m trying to save as much space as possible. The pine I will keep candle pruning them every year for the many decades to come and would like to keep its width shorter.

back in the day.. peeps with good cameras.. actually carried light meters so as to properly set the camera for pix ... and in discussing such with them.. of which i retained nothing.. lol ... i was surprised how bright the camera would 'see' .. as compared to you or me.. walking from sun to shade ... ever walk in a store on a sunny day .. and until your eyes adjust.. you cant see much of anything ... it would be the same effect ... with your bare eyes.. looking at this shade ... you just cant see the light level ...

also.. back in the day.. i had glasses that darkened in sun ... and i had the same effect.. when i walked into a deep shade garden.. couldnt see anything .. but eventually the glasses lightened.. and it all came clear.. that was a deep shade garden ...

but some of the best national hosta tour gardens i have ever been in ... the glasses never lightened.. because.. though there was dappled shade.. it was so bright.. that my glasses never lightened ...

i think ... when you read 'shade' .. you have some preconceptions of what shade means ... and.. for the most part ... its not what you think ...

full sun.. is basically anything over 8 hours.. in a given day ... so as noted on your pic.. thought those plants might be in mid day shade.. they most likely.. get more than the requisite 8 hours.. to actually be considered in full sun ... as those plants require ... to perform optimally ...

ken

ps: also understand.. that many.. if not most plants labeled as shade.. are only just shade tolerant ... and do just fine in sun ... and if they have problems.. its not the sun issue.. but other variables ... e.g. hosta are shade tolerant.. but can grow like weeds in sun ... but they sweat.. give off water also ... so in too much sun.. in the heat of the day.. they can burn ... when they give off more water than they can process ... but next year.. because of more vigorous root growth due to the sun ..... they will be a larger plant ... but they will be ugly as heck.. by late july/august ...

Eight + hours of full sun in my sandy, dry patch of garden will inflict some hurt on many plants that could otherwise handle it in more moisture retentive soils. Full sun here is 5-6 hours of sun. I’m not referring to native plants adapted to the conditions, but like so many garden terms, when it comes to “full sun,” it’s complicated.

Ok Well that’s good to hear. My goal is to try to save as much space as possible in my limited garden with many plants so this makes my planning more flexible. Maybe I don’t have to have my rock garden 30 ft away from my weeping cherry thinking that they would eventually get 60 ft wide. I guess I will plant my juniper pretty close to the Japanese black pine.

Ken, How about the opposite, sun plants in shade though?

Maackia, I see that you are in zone 4. Not sure where but it must be more north where sun angles are weaker than the south. Doesn’t that also change the amount of hours required for the term ‘full sun’?